Interview & Column

Interview with Foreign Editor The Austalian, Greg Sheridan

Kantor Presiden, Jakarta, 23-2-2012 

TRANSKRIP
WAWANCARA DENGAN PRESIDEN REPUBLIK INDONESIA
OLEH GREG SHERIDAN (FOREIGN EDITOR THE AUSTRALIAN)
DI KANTOR PRESIDEN, JAKARTA
TANGGAL 23 FEBRUARI 2012



President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Yes, I told Pak Sudi Silalahi, Pak Dipo Alam, you are friend of us. Of course, it is good to see you again, and always welcome.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Thank you very much.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Anytime, you could see us because we need to explain actually our country, our achievement, and of course our homeworks.

About ten days ago, I spoke before all foreign ambassadors who are staying in Jakarta. And, I briefed them all our progress, our development, our issues, our challenges, including once again good and bad things, in the sense our homeworks in the years to come. And, because I was explaining frankly, they are pleased. And, I promise to have an annual session. I mean, I could speak to all ambassadors, all heads of the international organizations staying here in Jakarta.

And, if I could add some explanations about your questions on economy, I would be glad to.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Thank you very much.



President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Yes. Well, you’re asking me about what does Indonesia aim in terms of economic growth, and what is reformed agenda has to be done by Indonesia in the years to come to improve probably the investment climate of us.

So, I have the view that Indonesia must have strong growth, in the sense: strong, balanced, inclusive, and sustainable growth. With strong growth, we could accelerate our endeavor in reducing poverty, in creating more jobs, in closing the social gap among our people, in ensuring that infrastructures can be more built across the country.

I think that having 7% to 8% growth is good. Of course, with better equity. 7% growth, average, is actually our aim. If we only pursue the growth, I mean, as high as possible: 8%, 9%, 10% growth, I’m afraid that it will give negative impact to our environment. And also, growth that is too high: 9%, 10%, 11% growth, will widen the social gap, because it’s not easy to have a good equity when growth is really high.

So, I could calculate actually. If we could have 7% growth and sustain in the long run we’ll be able to once again improve the welfare of the people.

And, how could we achieve that? Well, as you may follow our economic progress, we are now in the process of expanding and accelerating economic growth across the country. I have issued the so-called Masterplan for the Acceleration and the Expansion of Economic Growth up to 2025. I determined six economic corridors, and each corridor consists of economic zones, and some of them industrial clusters.

It is about stimulating investment, large-scale investment, to of course stimulate growth and to create more jobs. And, we invite actually investors, foreign and domestic. And, I am pleased to inform you that there is a strong commitment, even a plan. Some of them have realized their commitment and plan to invest in Indonesia 6, 7, 8, 10 billions or more. It is coming from Korea, Japan, and other countries.

And, I also invite our private sectors. And, in series of retreat, I involved them all to be part of this plan, to be part of, say it, this movement. And, I’m also glad that they start joining us in this big endeavor.

We also—this one is easier for me—involved state-owned enterprises to do more investment in this country. And, they started to do so since last year actually. With that, with mobilizing our own resources and also with inviting our partners abroad, investors from foreign countries, I believe very strongly that we will be able to achieve our long-term objectives. By 2025, we will be able to uplift our GDP, our income per capita, our of course other economic objectives.

I still remember when I assumed the presidency seven years ago, our GDP per capita is around 1,100. And now, we are having 3,500. Our GDP was at that time around 400 billions. We are now reaching US$840 billion.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
And, what was it then, Sir, when you assumed the presidency?

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
In 2004? 400. And, debt-to-GDP ratio, you know well that there is a crisis in Eurozone economy because of deficit and that problem I tried to do my best to reduce the debt and deficit, and I am pleased to inform you that, when in 2004 our debt-to-GDP ratio was around 56%, now is going down to 24% to 25% only, with a smaller component of foreign debt. It means that it is getting healthier, and our deficit is less than 3%.

Actually, I am aiming to have a balanced budget by 2014. But, you know well that, because of the geopolitical situation in the Middle East, the crude price is skyrocketing again now. It will impact our economy, and of course I have to adjust our growth, our debt-to-GDP ratio deficit and others. But, it is still on track actually our economic development.

And, if we are talking about what our effort in improving the business and investment climate in Indonesia, I know well because since 2004 I quite often met business communities, domestic as well as foreign. I hear their complaint, their issues, their problems. We try to solve it step by step, and it is progressing actually now.

But, of course I need to do more. For example, fighting corruption is our biggest challenge, eventhough more than 160 government officials, corrupt government officials: ministers, governors, mayors, members of the parliament have been brought to justice, and of course the climate of, the fear of corruption is actually rising. But, I have to admit, still we are facing problems in this arena. So, we’ll continue to double time our effort in preventing and in combating corruption.

Our bureaucracy sometimes is also not quite responsive in doing their jobs. We need to improve our bureaucracy. Sometimes, there is a complaint of legal certainty in certain areas, in certain issues. And, we try to continue our reforms in the justice sector. Infrastructures, of course we have built a lot of projects, but we should do more. And, in this matter, I invite private companies to be part of us in developing infrastructures if we want to have a kind of acceleration in building infrastructures. We developed public-private partnership in this matter.

Other challenge is sometimes, you know well, because we have changed our administration system. In the past, our government was really centralized, concentric. We are now imposing autonomy, regional autonomy, decentralization. There are problems also in this arena. So, we need to ensure that regional regulations do not contradict with national regulations.

It is also an issue that is praised by the private sectors, by the investors. So actually, I will continue leading this reform. And, I keep saying to our friends, investors and partners, of course it is my obligation, my homework, my task to continue this reform.

But remember, we could offer to you a lot of opportunities here in Indonesia in many arenas, from agriculture to industry to informations-type industry. And, I’m glad because I know also international institutions provide good analyses about, I should say, our economy and also investment opportunity that can be taken by doing business in Indonesia. So, that’s overall picture of our economy.

One thing, I could add, as a developing country leader, my mission is also to reduce poverty, to ensure that the poor people, they have also better life. So, of course I believe an economic theory that, if we have a strong growth, then jobs can be created. And, by having more jobs, poverty can be reduced.

But, I could learn from what we have done in the past. There are many lessons to be learnt that sometimes it’s not enough—economic mechanism, market mechanism—by believing that if we have growth, and then we have jobs, and then the poverty can be reduced.

We developed actually targeted-government program in poverty reduction, and we allocate a lot of fund to empower the people, to help the people, and it is working. Gradually, our poverty can be reduced and unemployment can be reduced as well. It means that, by combining the market mechanism, economic mechanism with targeted-government program, we’ll have a better result.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
What is the poverty rate in Indonesia?

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Now, around 12.-some%. We could reduce it from around 16 to 17% seven years ago, 16 to 17. It’s going down to 12%. But remember, when the crude price is up, and inflation is up, it means poverty can also go up.

So, it’s our challenge, our battle actually, how to ensure that, on the one hand, the purchasing power is increasing, but we could control and maintain inflation. And sometimes, inflations arrive from sources that I cannot reach.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes, indeed. Food prices.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Yes, of course. And also, food prices as well.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Sir, it’s a wonderful story of economic development. Do you feel why the Indonesian economic success is not fully recognized internationally? Indonesia really is one of the fastest growing economies in the world now, with 6% to 6.5% or something like that. The world hasn’t perhaps realized.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Yes, sometimes the world is only looking at India and China. They are talking about Asia, always talking India and China. It’s good, it’s good because they are major countries. But, don’t forget ASEAN. If we are talking ASEAN, you will talk about Indonesia.

So, I am pleased because, by continuing, stimulating our growth, our domestic market, I could contribute to the aim of the G20 that the world must have balanced economy, balanced growth; must have strong, sustainable, and balanced growth as well. So, I am pleased to say that Indonesia will continuously contribute to the big effort in making our global economy stronger, more sustainable, and more balanced.

And if I could say that, then of course the fact there is not only China and India, but countries like Indonesia and of course ASEAN.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. Sir, speaking of ASEAN, one of the things I asked you about, it was the developments in Myanmar. And, I believe you personally played quite a role here through your correspondence with Senior General and?

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
And Aung San Suu Kyi. I have written a letter to Madame Aung San Suu Kyi, to encourage her to go ahead with her roles in safeguarding the ongoing process of democratization in Myanmar.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. You must encourage about the development there.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Yes. That’s why when I chaired the ASEAN Summit last November in Bali, I decided to, of course with all ASEAN leaders, to give opportunity to Myanmar to be the chairman of 2014 ASEAN Summit. Why I did decide that? Because actually the trend is quite positive.

I believe in President Thein Sein. He is a long-time friend of me. Remember, when I made my conversation, you know well, with Senior General Than Shwe, I also made my personal, close and personal communication with all prime ministers from time to time. And, actually there are many meetings between me, in many occassions, with Prime Minister of Myanmar. And, all PM knew that Indonesia is in the position, on the one hand, persuading Myanmar to go ahead with its promise of democratization, respecting human rights, upholding rule of law. That’s the global objective and also our aim.

But, on the other hand, I keep consistently saying that the problem faced by Myanmar is not only about democracy, human rights, and rule of law but also national unity, national security, and national integration.

So, I keep telling Myanmar, “Well, Indonesia is strongly supporting you to achieve those two objectives: democracy, human rights, and rule of law; and your national unity, national security.” And, of course, with that, the rest is history now that Myanmar is moving, is changing, is progressing, but of course we have to continuously persuade Myanmar to do more, to do it faster. That’s my reading.

And, I’m glad because Hillary Clinton, Obama, other leaders now engage Myanmar more constructively. It is good, it’s good. Don’t isolate, don’t impose more sanctions and embargo. But, the time has come that we need the smart power, combining soft and hard power to ensure that Myanmar can continue its democratization.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. And, if Myanmar changed in ASEAN then, it would host the East Asia Summit.


President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Actually, that’s the game. Of course, I have reminded Myanmar when I met in Bali, remember? “When you will be the chairman of ASEAN, it means you will host also other summits: ASEAN Plus and East Asia Summit. It is a challenge for you because the world will look at Myanmar, your progress, your development in many things.” So, I will remind again and again. Next month, two months from now, I will attend ASEAN Summit in Phnom Penh, and I will find the opportunity to talk to my good friend, President Thein Sein, on this issue.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. So, one question or elaboration regarding Australia: when the troop rotations were announced, the U.S. troop rotations, through Darwin, there was a little bit of criticism in Indonesia that this might have been a bit unbalanced or, you know, done to annoy each other or something like this. But, are you relaxed now about this?

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Well, I rest also this issue when I met President Obama and also Prime Minister Julia Gillard in Bali, and both of them ensured me, told me that the presence of U.S., small U.S. troops in Australia, does not aim to threaten any country in the region. And, I replied, “Well, I think we have made a strong commitment to maintain peace, order and stability in this region.” We respect the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation. Everybody knows that under new ASEAN Charter, we want to have a strong political, security cooperation, of course aiming to have peace and stability in Southeast Asia.

And with that in mind, I believe that we could avoid unnecessary tensions in this region by the presence of military unit of any country, including also the presence of, could be, naval or sea power in this region: in South China, in other part of Asia.

So, I am asking to all countries actually because we have now East Asia Summit. It means, East Asia cooperation. Then, the spirit is to avoid conflict, to avoid the escalation of tensions, and to work together in ensuring that any problem, any dispute can be settled peacefully. That’s my understanding, and of course I am hoping that Australia, the U.S. and of course all countries can really understand the feeling of ASEAN, the feeling of Indonesia in this connection.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. Sir, I’m certainly not gonna ask you anything about Australian politics, but you feel now that the relationship is going well, it’s a strong Indonesia-Australia relationship.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Actually, since I took of these, we started—I will not use the word “normalizing”—with John Howard, actually we agreed to elevate our bilateral relations. And under Kevin Rudd, we even did more in making our relations stronger. And, we continue with Prime Minister Julia Gillard now.

So actually, this is a good era that our bilateral relations are really strong, solid and progressing well. We have to maintain it for the benefit of Australia and Indonesia. Remember, Australia is not only our close neighbor but also close friend and important partner as well.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. This seems to be a cross-party launch now in Australia. And you know, you’ve dealt with leaders on both sides of politics.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
I wish everything can be settled well. And I am hoping, because our relation is so important, that any issue of leadership can be settled peacefully. And, we could continue our partnership and cooperation.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. So, you’re optimistic at the role of the East Asia Summit can play, a big role in helping China and the U.S. cooperate together?

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Yes, I am. Of course, first East Asia Summit that Indonesia hosted in Bali, that is first summit that was attended by both Russia and the U.S. First time as well that both American and Chinese leaders onboard in East Asia forum. It’s a good beginning.

Actually, all leaders of East Asia Summit do understand there are problems in this region: the problem I should say the issue over South China Sea, Korean Peninsula and other issues. And, we have strong spirit to discuss it, to deal with properly, to actually achieve our aim, to have Asia that’s economically strong and of course Asia that is stable and peaceful.

So, I am optimistic. It’s a good forum for us, as far as we could maintain the spirit, the climate and focus on having effective cooperation

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Yes. One of the questions I mentioned was about the spirit of tolerance and the harmony, which Indonesia is very famous for and very well known for. The killings of some of these Ahmadiyah followers, the people who did it have gone before the courts, but the penalty is very, very small for such a serious matter.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
Well, I tell you what. I keep consistently saying that managing diversity is not to be taken for granted. It is a real challenge for us, especially when we are knowing now, in our world, there is a tendency of the spread of radicalism across the globe. It means our diversity, on the one hand, is our richness. But, on the other hand, is our vulnerability.

That’s why we endeavor to maintain our unity, our order amidst our diversity. And, I have to admit that eventhough nationally, generally our harmony is good—it is proven in our history nationally, generally—but sometimes in certain place there is an accident of disharmony, of communal conflict, horizontal tension.

But, trust me that our stand is quite firm, our policy is quite clear. We do not tolerate any violence, any out-of-law action done by any community. And, I will do to uphold that policy, that spirit and that principle.

You’re asking me why the penalty is so light. Of course, this is another arena. We follow the Western’s theory of Trias Politica, meaning: executive, legislative and judiciary.

But, I remind everybody, including the judicial friends. Remember that we have to uphold justice, justice for all. In this connection, I will not dictate how severe in making court decision. But, all aspects must be considered. So, it’s good for a prevention, actually, by imposing correct punishment.

I have to say that. And, I will continue to ensure that nationally Indonesia is a place of unity and diversity, harmony and diversity.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Well, Sir, thank you very much.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
I think I could add more explanations on your points, and I am hoping that you could tell our brothers and sisters in Australia about our progress, our situation, sometimes of course our homework to make Indonesia better.

Greg Sheridan, Foreign Editor The Australian:
Sir, thank you very much. It’s a privilege to see you again. And, I have to tell you, Sir, without trying to, you know, overstate things, I think you are the most popular Indonesian President in Australia, that has ever been. So, if you get tired of running Indonesia, come and contest in Australia. Sir, thank you so very much. It’s great to see you.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:
You’re welcome.

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